Episode 29 - CJ Carter Minorities for MMJ, Cannamerical Realty

If you're looking for this episode of the bluegrass cannabis podcast, you can find it here on Youtube.

[00:00:00.650] - Elijah

Welcome to the bluegrass podcast. Today we're talking with CJ. Carter, state director of the Kentucky chapter of minorities for Medical Cannabis, owner of can commercial realty group, and a member of the Kentucky Hemp association's board of directors. We're talking cannabis in Kentucky, recent progress on senate bill 47, cj's journey as a medical patient, social equity programs, and more. Let's get started.

[00:00:30.730] - Elijah

So do you want to introduce yourself a little bit and talk about your own personal journey with

cannabis? I think that you have a special connection to it.

[00:00:40.030] - CJ

Yeah, absolutely. Ironically, just a quick story. My first time smoking cannabis was at my 8th grade

graduation party. It was a going away party for me and also a graduation party. Actually lived in

Frankfurt, Kentucky at the time. But fast forward to 2015 was when I was first introduced to the

cannabis space through my brother who had started the comfy tree Academy, which was a licensing

boot camp that traveled across the country helping individuals enter the cannabis space. Through

that time, of course, I was married, but my ex wife hated the fact that I smoked. So it was two weeks

prior to father's day weekend, summer 2018. I had quit smoking cold turkey, and we were on vacation

at gray Wolf Lodge in Cincinnati. And I just remember it was like six in the morning. I remember

waking up with like three guys in my face and I didn't know what was going on. I was really

discombobulated. So I started fighting with these guys because I thought somebody had broken into

our hotel room. And it was finally when my ex wife, she let me know that I had a seizure. It was the

first seizure of my life, as I said, ironically, after I quit smoking cold turkey.

[00:02:11.290] - CJ

Then a couple of weeks after that, I had another seizure, then another seizure, then another seizure,

and then after the fifth seizure is when they diagnosed me with temporal lobe epilepsy. So the

temporal lobe of my brain, it controls your memory and your speech. So my memory is not the best,

and sometimes my speech becomes a little slurred or I lose train of thought, like mid sentence

sometimes. But that diagnosis of epilepsy kind of changed everything for me in terms of my cannabis

journey because it was just the business at first. But then once I was diagnosed, I found out that this

is really my medicine. After the MRI that I had later that year in 2018, they found that I had a

carvanoma behind my left eye, which looks like a cave on the MRI. So it's like a dark spot in my brain

where they think that the seizures actually originate from. So I still have to get an MRI. The next one

that I have scheduled, they want to monitor to see if it's grown at all the cavernoma, and if it has,

they're going to want to do brain surgery, which is something I'm very apprehensive about.

[00:03:31.170] - CJ

So in the cannabis right now. This is a very brand new industry. It's a brand new marketplace that's

about to open. So with my diagnosis in the cannabis space, where I am an advocate and a patient, I've

established a few business fronts as well in terms of offering myself and my family. I have two boys

from my marriage of a seven and a three year old. And unfortunately, since I have a preexisting

condition, I'm unable to get any more life insurance. So I view my journey in the cannabis space as a

means of me providing for my two boys through my entrepreneurial pursuits. So life insurance isn't a

route for me, but succeeding in the cannabis space is. It's something that I'm very determined in

doing is succeeding in the ventures that I have set up. So currently, that's where I am in my cannabis

journey. It's been a long one, I guess, since my 8th grade graduation party to where I am today.

[00:04:37.190] - Elijah

Absolutely. And this might be a little too personal and let me know if it is, but do you think that using

cannabis before you got your diagnosis maybe pushed off having a seizure or showing symptoms of

what was already developing?

[00:04:54.670] - CJ

Well, I'm not a doctor or anything, but I said this to my doctor based off of the size of the cavernome

in my brain. It's not small and it's been there for a while based off of the size of it. I played sports

growing up. I played football. I was really good at football and had quite a few concussions and head

injuries. But it does seem as if I was medicating myself from my personal experience and the first

hand knowledge that I do have smoking majority of my life. And then all of a sudden, when I stop, then

these seizures emerge from this spot in my brain that's been there for quite some time. So that's the

one thing, the unfortunate thing about epilepsy, especially epilepsy with black men, there is currently

no research whatsoever. I've tried to search for clinical research associated with individuals who have

epilepsy, and when it comes to men, there's hardly any. And when it comes to black men, there's

none. So that's my own case study. From my perspective, it does seem as if I was medicating myself

throughout my life up until the point where I quit cold turkey.

[00:06:13.760] - CJ

And then that's when these setbacks started to happen.

[00:06:18.410] - Elijah

And if you want to talk about your own projects a little bit, I believe that one of those involves real

estate and locations for cannabis.

[00:06:27.630] - CJ

Yes. So being that I've been in the cannabis space for several years now, it's very apparent that one of

the most important entry points into the cannabis space is having properly zoned real estate. So

that's a huge void that needs to be filled within the cannabis space. And that's one thing that I tell a lot

of people who have questions and who want me to consult them on their cannabis businesses is that

the cannabis space is filled with voids. And if you have an idea or an entrepreneurial pursuit, you can

actually fill those voids, being that this is an industry that's in its infancy. So I identified that void being

that Kentucky, we're about to be a brand new market, so we haven't quite opened yet, but it's not a

matter of if, it's when. So I've established myself as an industry professional when it comes to real

estate, and my job is to assist individuals and businesses through the leasing, the management, and

sales of property. So I advise clients on their best courses of action when deciding on how to invest or

how to improve real property of a commercial asset. And that's where I've built and I've established

the can commercial realty group, which, as I said, it encompasses all aspects of sales, leasing,

investment in the improvement of retail, property, investment, property form, land, businesses,

industries, medical facilities, and a dozen other property types.

[00:08:10.440] - CJ

So it's the business where I see that something that's going to be really needed in terms of providing

that substantial analytical data along with financial information and market demographics that are

really going to determine the type of marketplace that we have here in Kentucky. It's something that it

has offered me a lot of teachable moments in learning the real nuances of the cannabis industry as it

relates to real estate. Because outside of real estate, another important thing of course, is capital. But

capital goes right in hand with the real estate because it's kind of all inclusive when you're trying to

establish, say, a dispensary cultivation facility or manufacturing testing, whatever the case may be.

I've placed myself in a position to work directly with industry leaders, with community leaders,

government officials, lawyers, zoning boards, who else? Accountants, mortgage companies, banks,

title companies, appraisers. This is uncharted territory as it relates to real estate. It's something that,

as I said, I'm creating this from the rubble, so to speak, or from a bare landscape building. Something

that I see is going to be viable. It's going to allow me to be sustainable in the cannabis space.

[00:09:46.570] - CJ

That's one of the things that often happens when people have an entrepreneurial pursuit and they

enter a cannabis space or enter the cannabis space. It's very difficult in trying to find success

because there are so many deterrence and there are so many undeterminable factors that occur in

the cannabis space. Being that it's still federally illegal, and here in the state of Kentucky, being that

we haven't even legalized yet. So just like in any other business venture, one of the most important

things is position. It's just like the game of chess. It's all on how you position yourself.

[00:10:26.730] - Elijah

And like you're talking about with different challenges, especially with cannabis, there really is a

demand for people who can give good advice, even with things like retail space, understanding how

close you can be to other businesses, schools, residential areas? No, there's definitely a demand. Do

you have any areas that you enjoy more than the others, like farms or maybe dispensaries or law

offices or anything that you've just found you gravitate more towards?

[00:10:58.450] - CJ

Well, pretty much anything dealing with real estate has been somewhere that I have an interest in,

whether that is farmland and talking to farmers who have vacant land or whether it's visiting industrial

parks in different cities here in the state, mainly here in Louisville and in Lexington. Old industrial

warehouses that have been sitting vacant and have been on the market for thousands of days. There

are quite a few properties listed on the MLS services that have been on the market for quite some

time where these property owners or landowners or whatever the case may be, they're unable to

move. That's where I come in. But I would say, like, retail space seems like that's the most or has the

highest supply of vacant retail space. That's where you'll see a lot of openings when it comes to

commercial real estate. And that's the one part of the supply chain that everybody's familiar with. Me

coming in contact with people, that's one of the things that they always talk about is I want to be a

dispensary owner or I want to own a dispensary. What people don't realize is that space in the supply

chain is going to be one of the most competitive because everybody wants to have a dispensary.

[00:12:26.840] - CJ

Everybody wants to have that retail location that looks like an Apple store, but they disperse weed or

they sell cannabis. But definitely on the retail spot of the supply chain. Pretty much anywhere in the

supply chain is an interest to me because at the end of the day, I view myself as a real estate

consultant, a cannabis real estate consultant, where I am assisting sellers, buyers, landlords and

tenants in the cannabis space. As I said earlier, this is very young, it's very in flux, and it's inherently

risky being in this business. It's all about doing the legwork and getting the proper deal completed.

And it's my goal to be able to maximize the value of a property and then also reduce the amount of

time wasted in obtaining an offer and an acceptance in a new lane, which is cannabis real estate. I

believe I'm one of the only agents in the state who considers this to be their niche. This is my niche in

real estate. In commercial real estate is to, as I said, assist anyone who's interested in entering the

space and filling what it is that they see in terms of their vision of being involved in the cannabis

space.

[00:13:53.240] - CJ

I see myself as being as being an assistant to helping people's cannabis dreams come true.

[00:13:59.790] - Elijah

And how do you see things changing? Because like we're talking about with real estate right now,

especially in Kentucky, there are certain regulations and certain standards that you have to have

because a lot of people are entering just with CBD. How do you see things changing as Kentucky gets

into the more regulated cannabis space? Possibly, or like with other states, when things get more

restrictive on the types of property you have to have?

[00:14:27.990] - CJ

Being that Kentucky is about to be a new market, there is going to be somewhat of a premium or what

they call the green tax associated with real estate properties. Oftentimes how it happens is when

people hear the word cannabis, they automatically add a tax to it. Being that they know this is

something where a property owner or a landowner can possibly raise their rents or raise the actual

price. That's something that's definitely going to happen. So what tends to happen is once markets

tend to stabilize or who've had legalization for quite some time, that green tax often diminishes

because the supply and demand actually change. So that's one of the things about Kentucky is as it

stands right now, there is a supply, but it's few and far between in terms of the properties actually

being zoned correctly based on how it's written in current legislation. But that is going to change once

the demand increases. And that's where we're going to see that price increase as it comes more and

more once we reach legalization and once we reach maturity in the space, it's going to be those

extreme highs and those extreme lows that you see in any marketplace when it first opens up.

[00:16:05.350] - CJ

Another thing that I can see changing is traditional lending practices. Currently as it stands, like in

other states, financial institutions tend to not lend to cannabis businesses being that they're still on

prohibition, it's still federally illegal. So that leaves cannabis businesses in a tough spot because it is

an all cast business at this time. And then also when it comes to the real estate tax code, the 208, it's

a federal tax code that prevents plant touching businesses from deducting standard business

expenses. And it's something that hinders the cannabis space right now as we speak. So there's a lot

of factors that go into what's going to happen and what's going to change here in Kentucky because

the legislature is inefficient, I'll say it in the nicest way that I can, to say the least, right. These guys, a

lot of them claim to have never touched the plant or have never smoked the plant. And then that's

where I come in and say, well, if you guys have no experience with the plant, how do you expect to set

up a marketplace or how do you expect to set up a cannabis industry here in the state of Kentucky

that's going to thrive and that's going to stand the test of time.

My answer to that question is that they don't. I mean, they honestly do not know what they're doing.

And it's as clear as day that they don't because they go around asking these questions that have

nothing to do with the actual bottom line where it puts the state and the residents of this

commonwealth in a tough position. Because once cannabis does become legal, there are so many

benefits that are going to be associated with opening up the market for this plant that comes from

Mother Earth, that comes from a seed. It'll be able to provide us with so many fruits here in the state

where the legislators, it's just like it's all lost in translation. They don't hear the 90% of Kentuckians

who support cannabis. It's like you guys are supposed to be working for the constituents, but it's clear

that you're not because a lot of the legislators, they're working off of their interest and special interest

that back a lot of them when it comes to politics being ran by money and those monies and those

profits are often over people, unfortunately.

[00:18:57.210] - Elijah

I absolutely love that you're talking about how legislators are trying to regulate, but they say that they

have no experience with the plant whatsoever. I think about that constantly because, like yourself,

with someone with cannabis experience, it changes the way that you look at the industry and you look

at the way that things need to be regulated. Experience just changes how you understand it.

[00:19:22.320] - CJ

Exactly. And we were supposed to have that hearing today. I'm upset that we didn't have it either. I

know I had plans on testifying if they had the sign up sheet available. I was definitely going to share a

few words with the Senate Licensing and Occupation Committee because that's one of the things that

the legislators, they always talk about is economic growth and workforce development. Well, here we

are at the precipice of the opening of a multibillion dollar industry in the best world to cultivate and

harvest and manufacture cannabis. I call Kentucky the fertile crest and the cannabis. This is the best

place in the world for cannabis to be grown. And it's like we have this unique opportunity here in

Kentucky and the legislators are literally dropping the ball. Even though we're one of the last states to

legalize, really, I can still see the benefit in this situation being that we can see the failures of other

states and where they have failed in terms of their legalization. We should be using what other states

have failed at to create our blueprint here in the state of Kentucky. And it is, as I said, a unique

opportunity that the legislators are dropping the ball on.

[00:20:42.660] - CJ

I mean, we could be at the forefront of this multibillion dollar industry, but yet we're still lagging

behind because of the inefficiencies and the inadequacies of our legislators who I don't know what

they're actually thinking. I sense a lot of them in my dealings and in my talkings with the legislators

that I have relationships with and the ones that I don't. It seems that the ones who don't are often

basing everything off of what they believe and what they feel rather than basing things off what they

know. Because I come from the train of thought, when you believe, you don't know. So you have to

know in order to do more than just believe. And then you have to apply what you know, then that then

becomes wisdom. And that's kind of what I see as missing in politics, is there's things are based on

how things make people feel, are based off of what people believe, which could be false. It could be

the furthest from the truth that it is. But since you believe in it, it sets up a comfort zone for you. That

often happens, especially here in the cannabis space, at the detriment of patients of citizens, of

individuals who are looking for work or who are looking to start businesses.

[00:22:10.970] - CJ

It's hurting all parties involved due to the legislature and their inability to actually push this measure

through. In terms of legalizing medical marijuana, in terms of legalizing recreational marijuana, in

terms of setting up a stronger foundation for hemp, in terms of us actually setting up a cannabis

commission where the actual cannabis plant can be housed in one department under, say, the

department of agriculture, all of the things that I'm saying, it makes the most sense. But as I said

earlier, when dealing with politics and politicians, logic is nonexistent, unfortunately.

[00:22:55.670] - Elijah

I love everything you're talking about, so my next question is, when are you running? Because this is

the sort of voice that we need for cannabis in the legislature.

[00:23:04.650] - CJ

Well, it's interesting that you ask that, because a lot of people ask me that question in point blank,

period. I'm a black man in America. Politics has never done anything for me. So I've been

disassociated for politics from politics for a majority of my life. But I once read a quote was years

ago, that said, even though you don't have an interest in politics, doesn't mean that politics has an

interest in you. It definitely seems that politics has an interest in me, but at this stage of my life, I don't

see myself being involved in politics except for the avenue that I have now in terms of advocating for

the plant politics. It's a lot, it takes a lot, and I can see what politicians go through and the frustrations

associated with politics. But at this stage of my life, it's something that I can't see happening. I have a

seven and a three year old, so that's one of my main focuses right now, is being the best father and

being the best dad that I can possibly be to my two boys. So I can't have something come in between

me and my two sons at this stage of my life just because that's something that's so valuable to me.

[00:24:31.530] - CJ

It's something that I can't squander, I can't give up that value right now. But that's not to say that I

wouldn't run for politics. But, yeah, just at this stage of my life, I'm coming from a point I'm recently

divorced. So in my divorce, being that I have two boys, I gave up everything for my sons. I lost a

substantial amount of money in my divorce where it actually put me below the negative. So that's

where my real focus is right now on my two boys and on building myself up and reestablishing my

legacy. Because I'm coming from a deficit right now and getting involved with politics. That's going to

put a lot more on my plate as of now. But I don't mind being a consultant to people. When people

have questions, by all means, I'll answer those questions to the best of my ability and the knowledge

that I've obtained over the years in the cannabis space. But I won't say I'm not going to run for politics.

I just prefer being a consultant right now.

[00:25:44.110] - CJ

I completely understand that. I'll say the more you talk, though, the more I want you to run. But you're

not completely separated from politics either. You're director of the Kentucky chapter of minorities for

medical marijuana, and you're also a board director for the Kentucky hemp association, correct?

[00:26:01.600] - CJ

Yeah. So those are our pursuits, being involved in the nonprofit space where cannabis is a passion of

mine. And, you know, I don't mind, you know, giving back to cannabis. And, you know, I do that by

serving as the state director for minorities for medical marijuana and also by being on the board of

directors for the Kentucky hemp association. I have a vision for Kentucky when it comes to cannabis,

and much like software is to California, I can see cannabis being that for Kentucky. I can see us being

the epicenter of an international marketplace when it comes to cannabis. Everybody has their eyes on

Kentucky to see what it is that we're going to do here in the state. I had a call a couple of weeks ago

from an international company in the Netherlands who is supplying medical grade cannabis to the

European union right now for medicinal purposes. And here the FDA just recently opened up or gave

out some guidelines for clinical research. So they've actually reached out to me, this company

overseas, and was asking questions about Kentucky. It's like, what's the forecast? What's it look like?

How do you see Kentucky?

[00:27:23.130] - CJ

When do you see Kentucky coming on board for medical marijuana? Because they're actually thinking

about coming here and setting up shop here in Kentucky. So there's a lot that goes into all of this. But

me being in those positions in the nonprofit realm, that's my way of actually giving back. I like to pay

things forward. And this isn't an individual pursuit from me. I am a very selfless person. I view myself

as a catalyst or I view myself as the spark that's going to set a raging inferno that's going to change

the landscape of Kentucky when it comes to cannabis. So any way that I can give back, that's what

I'm doing. I'm a person who likes to stay behind the scenes. I've been doing this work for three years

now, and a lot of people still don't know what it is that I do. And I like it that way sometimes just to not

be in the limelight. I like to be in the background trying to help out as many people as I can to push

them into the limelight. Because the cannabis space, it's showing that it's an amazing industry to be a

part of.

[00:28:40.250] - CJ

And there are more people who are starting to dial in and who are wanting to learn more and to

become more involved in the cannabis space. And any way that I can do that, I definitely am just

trying to help as many people as possible to be multibillion dollars, it's a lot. And it is what you is if

you want to.

[00:29:05.550] - Elijah

And for those of my listeners that may not be familiar with both of those groups, do you want to talk a

little bit about what they represent and what they work towards?

[00:29:15.970] - CJ

Yeah, I mean, it's a lot unfortunate. It is what it is, and it's crazy. It definitely is. And it definitely is a lot

when it comes to cannabis. It's going to help and it's going to hurt. It's going to be what you want to

be. It is what it is. If you want to be a part of this, then you have to do it. You have to give up whatever

it is that's going to cause you to come back. So you have to do it. You have to have that strength. You

have to have six or you have to have steps to actually get figures. It's a lot, but a lot of people don't

know what it actually is and don't know where to go in terms of actually being where we need this

cannabis. It could be anywhere here in the state of Kentucky. Kentucky is the bluegrass state. The

bluegrass, it says it right there. It's that simple. We have the grass here in Kentucky. We have the best

location being where we're located, we have the best weather, we have the best soil. Everything is just

set up perfectly for us here in Kentucky.

[00:30:48.660] - CJ

But it seems as if some of us, specifically the legislators dropping the ball, we are falling behind in

terms of establishing this new marketplace that is cannabis. We have everything here in Kentucky. We

have the best location. We have a fresh water source. We have everything that you can imagine. We

have the limestone in our soil that enriches everything with magnesium and calcium. We have

everything. And yet here we are still with no legal legislation as it relates to medical marijuana and

recreational marijuana. It's sad, it's exhausting. It still is. Understandable because at the end of the

day, it's all about money. And I can see legislators putting themselves in a position to try and

capitalize the most off of the money. I recently learned not too long ago that Senator Stivers in his

district, I believe there's a letter of intent for a processing facility in his district. I don't know if a lot of

people know that or not, but I read this not too long ago about that letter of intent being in his district.

And Senator Stivers. He doesn't like me. I know that for a fact. It was a couple of weeks ago, I was in

Leadership Louisville, the Ignite program, and it was the spring of 2021.

[00:32:26.960] - CJ

Well, Leadership Louisville was actually in Frankfurt a couple of weeks ago while I was there doing

some lobby work. And I saw a few of the individuals who were involved and they were like, yeah, we're

here. You should come by. And we're having a little talk. You should come by. We're in this room. So I

finished my lobby work and I end up going into the room where they are, and it's packed. It's about 50

or 60 people. And they have a few legislators, and they're giving a talk, answering some questions.

And then shortly after I arrive, behind me arrives Senator Stivers. So he starts talking and then he

opens it up for questions. My hand shoots up. And instead of giving him the softball questions, I

challenged him. I asked him a question about social equity and social economics associated with the

history of Kentucky, being that there's no other state in the country that has the history and that has a

storyline that Kentucky has as it relates to cannabis. And I put him on the spot and he turned cherry

red. I'm talking about he was extremely red. And he did not answer my question about social equity or

social economics.

[00:33:40.880] - CJ

He George Bush, basically. He ran around the actual topic. But that's what I'm in the business of, is

trying to challenge these legislators as much as possible. A lot of people don't realize it, but when you

testify or you give testimony or you take a stance, the root word of testimony and testifying is

testicles. So you would have to put your testicles online when you speak, when you talk, when you

give testimony. So that has to be put on the line to make sure that you are telling the truth. Because if

you're not, then you're risking your manhood. And unfortunately, a lot of politicians, they don't have

that viewpoint. They will say one thing behind closed doors and then when it comes to the public, it's

something that's totally different. And I've been trying my best over the last three years to try and get

a meeting with Senator Stivers, senator Thyer, who else was it? Senator Mike Wilson. But it's always

the same response. The calendar is full. We don't have any space. For you. And it's just like, I think

that's because I'm the black guy who's the cannabis advocate, who's going to challenge you

guys'thinking and is going to make you uncomfortable.

[00:35:07.400] - CJ

But that's what we have to do because nothing happens and there's no growth that's associated with

comfort zones. You got to step outside of those comfort zones and where you're comfortable to

actually achieve your true height, to achieve your greatest accomplishments, you have to step outside

of that comfort zone. And that's why I try and preach to these legislators that we can't keep doing

things the way we've been doing them, because the way things have been done is it's been failing the

people of this commonwealth. That's a crazy statement when you talk about the Commonwealth of

Kentucky because it seems like that wealth, it is not common. And in particular here's a brand new

industry where the wealth can be common. But for some reason, the way things are trending, it's

going to be business as usual, where that wealth is only relegated to a few individuals, unfortunately.

But in the business of trying to change that, Appreciate you and your podcast on being able to

highlight a lot of these issues in this topic around cannabis, because this is something that a lot of

people don't know. A lot of people are still believing in belief, and they don't know what actually is at

hand and what's ahead of us and what the actual possibilities are for a legal cannabis marketplace,

there is so much potential that we have literally in the palm of our hands.

[00:36:39.140] - CJ

So it seems as if it's up to the people, it's up to the citizens of the state, it's up to us residents to

actually call and start to harass these legislators and let them know there's no more straddling fence.

You can't straddle the fence. No more. You're either for it or you're against it. If you're against it, great.

If you're for it, we want to know why. So that's why I got to give a huge salute to Matthew and Lauren

with Kentucky normal, patrick and Jean with the Kentucky Cannabis Freedom Coalition, kristen and

Julie with Kentucky moms with medical marijuana. You have Congo with the ACLU. Who else? We

have Raul with the NAACP, and there's so many other organizations out there where we are in a place

where we have formed a coalition to try and bring all of this stuff to the forefront, where we're able to

establish a foundation for this actual marketplace. And that's why we all encourage people to start

contacting their legislators, because enough is enough. We are at a point in time where talk is cheap,

and it's always been cheap. And it seems like that's all politicians have been doing is talking and there

is no action.

[00:38:01.370] - CJ

So that's what we implore people to do is start to call your legislators, start to put their feet to the fire

so we can get this ball moving. We've made a lot of headway. We thought we made a huge try today

by having a Senate committee hearing. Got my hopes up this whole weekend. I'm super excited we've

made it this far in the Senate. It's never been here before. This is the first, but yet it wasn't on the

agenda yesterday. So it's just like Dang, another step back. But we're still here, we're still standing,

we're still fighting. I just want to keep saying it encouraging. People, please contact your legislators.

Look it up on the Internet. It's a quick Google search for you to find out who your legislator is. It's not

too hard. There's numbers out there that you can call to get the legislators on the phone. It's just a

matter of how much are we willing to put forward to move this issue further and then put it in a place

where we can begin to build this industry based off of our specifications. Because the legislators

don't know. They don't know what they're doing.

[00:39:12.040] - CJ

But there are individuals who know exactly what's needed and who know exactly what needs to be

avoided in terms of setting up this cannabis marketplace in the Breadbasket of Cannabis, which is the

bluegrass state of Kentucky. And that pun kind of is intended, being that you have the bluegrass

podcast and here we are in the bluegrass state kind of is coming full circle.

[00:39:38.810] - Elijah

Absolutely. I tell people I'm like, we're going to put the grass back in the bluegrass. It's going to

happen.

[00:46:15.740] - Elijah

And I'm glad you're talking about so many groups that are activating and that there are avenues for

people to get involved because sometimes I think people can slow down or get a little depressed

about what might happen. But I like that you're talking about pushing for the things that we want to

happen and talking about those social equity programs. I would love to get your thoughts on the way

that we need, not just to frame that, but the actual things we need to do. Because I think that one of

the failures of some of the other states has been that the aid or the help or whatever these programs

are supposed to be don't actually make it to the people that need it or don't actually end up going to

businesses that do support minorities in different ways.

[00:47:05.340] - CJ

When it comes to social equity and social economics, there's a lot of talk. There's a whole lot of talk. I

know there are a few states, namely Illinois, New York, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Jersey,

California, Washington, who all have social equity provisions written into their legislation. But even

though it's written into the legislation, oftentimes it doesn't come to fruition due to people's lack of

commitment in the high places that are in a position to actually see these measures actually go

through. So going back to what I stated earlier about the history of Kentucky as it relates to cannabis,

kentucky once upon a time was the largest producer of hemp and illegal marijuana. Through the 1718

hundreds, early 19 hundreds, kentucky produced, I believe it was 90% of the nation's hemp supply. A

lot of that hemp through that time, along with slavery, the hemp was used to make the bags that

housed the cotton or the ropes that tied down the tobacco. This was all done here in Kentucky. And

even though Kentucky was not a plantation state, there were slaves here in the numbers, over

hundreds of thousands of slaves. And when it comes to hemp, they actually referred to hemp, or

hemp was referred to here in Kentucky as the nicker crop.

[00:48:53.510] - CJ

That's what they called it because it was done on the back of the black man and the black family

where hemp was dirty. It was very laborist, it took a lot for it to be processed into the various means in

which it could be processed into. And that was all done by the black man here in the state and the

black family here in the state. So when it comes to social equity, there is no other story that has this

gravity associated with it when it comes to black folks. And I like to use black folks specifically

because this is our story here in the state of Kentucky. No one else has this story. Even though we use

the term minority when it comes to legislation, when it comes to legalese, that term minority can be

it's very broad and it's very ambiguous. That's how things operate in legalese. But more specifically

when it comes to black folks. Nobody else has this story. And that's what it is that I'm advocating for

when it comes to social equity, is ensuring that a certain percentage of the actual applications are

actually allocated for black people for specifically for black folks here in the state of Kentucky.

[00:50:22.100] - CJ

Because a lot of the people who live here in Kentucky were born and raised here. Their parents were

born and raised here, their grandparents were born and raised here. So there are a lot of direct ties

associated back to 1850 with black folks who have direct ties to that family lineage that actually grew

the 90% of him that was grown here in Kentucky. So I would like to see a certain allocation of the total

licenses, whether that be for dispensary or retail, for processing, for cultivation, for testing, for

delivery, how they currently have it written through that entire supply chain. I want a certain

percentage of those applications to be allocated for black folks. And then on top of that, there needs

to be a subsidies that's associated with those applications that have been allocated to black folks,

because that's, as I said, one of the major barriers of entry into the cannabis space is capital. And

black folks and minorities, we don't have access to that type of capital. A lot of people don't realize is

when you set up a dispensary or a retail location, it typically costs anywhere from one point five to

three million dollars to actually set up, get your license, get your real estate, get all the things that you

need retrofit through construction, your building.

[00:51:49.800] - CJ

That's a lot of money. And then on top of that, you won't see a return on your investment until around

three to five years when you start to really see that money coming back in. So those subsidies

associated with the percentage of applications is something that I'm fighting for in terms of social

economics here in the state of Kentucky, because, as I always say, a fraction of a percentage of multi

billions is multi millions. And that right there is generational wealth. And that can change generations

of black folks who have been indiscriminately punished by the war on drugs here in the state of

Kentucky, where there's only what about, I think, around 320,000 black folks in the state of Kentucky,

but specifically here in Louisville, we're ten times more likely to be arrested and charged with a

cannabis crime. How is that actually possible? Ten times more likely when there's only 320,000 of us?

We make up less than 15% of the state's population. How is that actually possible? But we know how

it's possible, because criminal justice associated with cannabis was built against our best interest. It

was built to place us in a position where we can't prosper that's what social equity is there for.

[00:53:15.450] - CJ

It's there to change that narrative, to author a new storyline for people who look like me for black

folks, for melanated people who have a direct connection to the history of Kentucky as it relates to

cannabis. It's of the utmost importance in my eyes, that we are written into this legislation, because

one thing that I've learned in politics is nothing happens retroactively. If you don't have a seat at the

table when plans are being solidified for legalization, they're going to forget about you. And once they

forget about you, they don't go back and rewrite legislation to consider you. That's the belly of the

nature of the beast. That's how politics are currently set up. So that's why I've been fighting this fight

for the last three years, you know, through minorities, for medical marijuana, specifically for black

folks here in the state of Kentucky. Because as I said, we are in a unique place here in Kentucky with

the history that we have here. A lot of people don't know it. When I travel and go to the various

conferences and tell people about the history of Kentucky, nobody knows it. This is like something

that's brand new to people.

[00:54:39.100] - CJ

It's like, are you serious? That can't be. But it is be. It's the actual truth. And that's why it's of the

utmost importance that social equity, in my eyes, is included in all current and future cannabis

legislation.

[00:54:56.500] - Elijah

This is something I'd like to get your thoughts on. It doesn't fall under the traditional social equity

we've seen in other states, but the idea of limiting the amount of licenses and cutting out small

producers. Because like you said, it can be incredibly difficult to raise one, two, $3 million in capital.

But if you have maybe an acre direct to consumer and you open up the licenses, you provide the most

value for communities and the most value to the business as well. Like not just saying you get two

out of the 15, but saying that anyone should be able to make a profit and a living off of this without

having to go to someone else for permission. In addition to, like you said, direct help, direct grants

help people with real money.

[00:55:46.840] - CJ

Yeah, that kind of was the Oklahoma model where any and everyone could apply. And there wasn't a

cap on the actual licenses. Currently, as it's written in the legislation, they kind of use that same

language where they use the term at least. So they have it written in the legislation where there's

going to be at least 25 dispensaries, there's going to be at least 15 cultivation facilities, there's going

to be at least five processing facilities. So they do have that currently written into the legislation

where there necessarily isn't a cap. But then that happens with small time business, with the small

people who aren't these huge multi state operators that have facilities in several states we still are,

know, taking a backseat even though we haven't even legalized yet, due to the fact that how capital

intensive the space is. It's a lot that goes into this whole entire thing. It's somewhat of a quagmire at

this stage of the game because there are so many unknowns that are associated with it. And it's easy

to write legislation, but it's very difficult to implement that legislation. So, you know, even if we get

social equity written into the legislation, it's, it's going to be difficult to actually get it implemented,

especially with the wishes that I have that are associated with subsidies associated with that.

[00:57:37.380] - CJ

I know I'm asking for a lot, but you have to ask for the moon and I expect it. But I know that it's

probably not going to happen, but I'm still going to ask for more than what is actually possible for

actually happening, even though you got to be a realist in this situation. But when it comes to the

licenses they do have it written that you have to be a resident of the state for, I believe it's three years.

So that is kind of insulating our marketplace by making sure that individuals are residents of the

state. But even adding home grows, which as you said, having direct to consumer, if you're able to

grow your own or if you're able to have an acre of land, that you grow specific seeds or you grow the

root, whatever the case may be, that is something that's not talked about as of yet. It hasn't been

talked about, but that doesn't mean that it's not going to come up in future conversations. But there

still is a lot of growth that can happen in terms of the legislation that they currently have and that was

in the Senate Licensing and Occupations Committee.

[00:58:59.120] - CJ

Even though the Republicans pound on their chest as being the most restrictive legislation in the

country, we can definitely move from that restriction and move towards more prosperity in the

cannabis space if the legislator simply broaden their outlook. Absolutely.

[00:59:18.890] - Elijah

And I think going back to those like small farms and direct to consumer, it also allows people that

entry point, right, for the cost of making sure that your soil is okay and the cost of a few seeds, it

allows you to get up and going, creates the greatest amount of value so people are getting the most

money. And it also means it's going to be cheapest for your community. So the people who really

need that help are also going to be able to benefit as well.

[00:59:48.640] - CJ

What you're talking about, it seems as if it's common sense. I'm right there with you. That's it right

there. What you just described like that is so streamlined that helps out all parties involved. But for

some odd reason, if we were to give that proposal to the legislator, they're going to muddy it, they're

going to find something wrong with it and they're going to try and change it. Even though what you

just explained, that is an amazing business model for a community, for a small community to even

have that business model because that's going to help all of the residents of that community. But I'm

trying my best, being that I've been in this for three years, man. Trying my best not to get frustrated.

I'm trying not to get angry because it seems like for the last four years it's three and a half years, it'd

be four years in September, man. It seems like we just been treading water, just been in the same

place and haven't made much progress. But that's what it is when it comes to politics. We try and

present all of these ideas to these legislators, but yet it always seems to fall on deaf ears,

unfortunately.

[01:01:11.100] - CJ

But that doesn't mean that we give up because that's not what we do. We're in this business to fight.

We're in this business to see real results and we're here to see people prosper, not only corporations

and businesses, but we want to see the people of Kentucky prosper as well. Because there certainly is

that potential that's associated with us in terms of the ideas that we have, in terms of implementing

those ideas into the marketplace here in Kentucky. But just got to keep up the good fight, man. Just

got to keep trugging along and tell people, throw me another life preserve. Even though I've been

treading water. We've been treading water in the same spot on the deep end, trying to get ourselves

out of it. Oh yeah.

[01:01:56.030] - Elijah

Well, like you said, get angry, but then activate, right? Turn it into action. Don't just let it stew.

[01:02:02.460] - CJ

Exactly. That's definitely where we are in this fight. We made some headway by it actually being

assigned to a Senate committee. There's only, what, ten days left in the session, so hopefully it'll

come up in a committee, in that committee hearing, hopefully next week because we are running out

of time. This is the second week of March already. The session is over on March 30 and it's like, dang,

this year's legislative session has flown by. But hopefully this won't be another year that's in vain

where nothing gets accomplished. I plan on still going to the Frankfurt a couple more days throughout

the month to go do some lobby work, talk with as many legislators as I can to try and move this thing

forward. But this isn't an individual pursuit. As I said, this has to be something that's collective. We all

have to be involved in this if we want to really see it move forward and really become all that it can be.

We have to contact and continue to put that pressure on these legislators because if we don't, they're

just going to create whatever it is that they want to. And currently, as the legislation stands, what

they've created is a lack of better words, is piece of shit to me.

[01:03:25.000] - CJ

It's going to fail on its face. The current medical bill that's being presented due to the fact that there's

only, what, five or six qualifying conditions. There's no flower, there's no home grow. There is no real

growth for the actual space. It's something that it's hard for me to fathom how the legislators think

like this, but that's a part of it. And that's why we have to start to harass them. I harass them by going

to Frankfurt once a week, trying to talk. But what you guys can do if you do hear this podcast, call

1803 727181. That's a number where you can contact legislators to let them know that you do

support medical marijuana specifically, even though the bill is not too much of anything house Bill 40

or Senate Bill 47, and I believe it's House Bill one, six or 107. I believe that's being introduced by

Representative Graham. So there's a Senate medical bill, and then there's also a House medical bill,

which are pretty much the same thing, but they're just introducing it on both sides of the House. So

please, people, call as many times as you can, as many harass them.

[01:04:58.570] - CJ

That's all I got to say, because this is getting to the point where it's past time. We have to do this now,

because the longer we wait, the longer patients like myself, our patients who are cancer survivors or

who have lupus or multiple sclerosis, who have anxiety, we're going to be left in the wind just there

waiting for this marketplace to open up. And that's something else that we have to be mindful of

once. Say, if the legislation does pass this session before March 30, there still is an implementation

phase, which usually takes anywhere from a year and a half to three years in terms of officially

opening up the marketplace. So that's why it's of the utmost that if you want to enter the cannabis

space, that you have to be proactive right now as of today. Because if they do legalize this session,

then we're about two years out from the marketplace being open. So this isn't the time to sit back.

You have to sit up, take steps to position yourself in a space where you can provide for individuals

and then also provide for yourself.

[01:06:22.940] - Elijah

Absolutely love that you dropped the legislative hotline. I was going to do that at the end of this

episode since we were talking about activation so much. But you just did it for me. And before I let

you go, do you want to talk about some of the ways that maybe people can get involved either with

minorities for medical marijuana, kentucky Hemp Association, where they can find that as well as

your realty group?

[01:06:47.880] - CJ

Sure. Everything is online nowadays, so if you wanted to go to minorities or M for Mmunited.org, you

can find out all the information with M for Mm, including joining our organization. We do have a tiered

system of membership that starts off being a free member, and then, of course, that tier does

increase and does add a price associated with it in terms of the benefits that you will have access to

in the cannabis space. So that is Mformunited.org. And then also for the Kentucky Hemp Association,

you can become registered as a member in the Kentucky Hemp Association by visiting the website

right now. Currently, as it stands, there are about 90 individuals and businesses who are associated

with the Kentucky Hemp Association, which is a statewide hemp trade organization. And that website

is Kyhemassociation.org. And to be a part of the Kentucky Hemp Association, I believe there is $100

fee or $100 dues that you would have to pay to get access to the actual hemp association. We're

actually planning right now to have the Kentucky Hemp Association conference in the month of May,

which is right around the corner, if you can't believe it.

[01:08:29.160] - CJ

That is going to be May. I believe it is May. The 14th and 15th, I believe is the weekend, the weekend

of May 13. That's what it is, the weekend of May 13. We're going to have the Kentucky Hemp

Association annual conference that will be here in the city of Louisville. By going to the website, you

can get access to all of that information. And that again is Kyhempassociation.org. And then when it

comes to my real estate group, the Cannamercial Realty group, we can be

found@canavercialrealty.com. And that is spelled C-A-N-N-A-M-E-R-I-C-A-L realty. Realty.com. So

that's going to give you all the ins and outs of cannabis real estate. So I've done hours and hours of

research to see what exactly is needed to enter the cannabis supply chain when it comes to real

estate. So by visiting my website, you'll be able to access all of that information. And then if you have

any questions, feel free to reach out to me. All my information is provided on the website. Again.

That's cannamercialrealty.com and that's kennershallrealty.com. So the Cannemercialrealty Group,

that is my pride and joy right now in terms of me establishing and positioning myself in the cannabis

marketplace here in Kentucky.

[01:10:19.970] - CJ

I want to help individuals curate their cannabis properties starting now and into the future, that's

going to position you and your business in a place that's going to allow you to be and achieve

success in the cannabis market. So that's kind of in essence where I stand. I have another startup

that I'm working for. We're kind of still in the beginning stages of that, starting to get the developer up

and running. We already have other key pieces in place. And this is for a software system. It's an ERP

software system, which is enterprise resource planning. So we're developing a cannabis software

solution that's going to allow any size business, from the small scale all the way up to the multi state

operator, to efficiently run and streamline their entire business model by using a software. System

that's going to allow you to really determine and really see real time based off of the data that's

generated the real lifetime profits and your actual margins associated with your business. Now that's

another void that's currently in the space is. A lot of cannabis businesses aren't able to determine

what their profitabilities are and they are basing everything off of Excel spreadsheets.

[01:11:44.020] - CJ

Even at this stage of the game, they're still operating off of spreadsheets where there's a lot of

estimates and guesstimations around their business. And you can effectively and efficiently run a

business based off of an assumption. So that's kind of where I am in the cannabis space filling voids.

That's kind of what I see and the possibilities where the real ways of being a success and actually

prospering in the space is sitting down, thinking about it, and seeing where you can insert yourself in

this multi state or this multibillion dollar industry. Kentucky. I love Kentucky. I've lived here a majority

of my life, even though my father was in the military. I've traveled my whole life and I've had a

passport my whole life. But I've called Kentucky home at three different periods of my life, and both of

my boys were born here. So Kentucky is home to me. So any way that I can be of assistance to

people, feel free to reach me. Social media as well. Ken commercial realty group on Facebook. Ken

commercial realty on Instagram. Or you can find me CJ Carter on Facebook as well. It's my personal

page where you can kind of see my story, see you, see how things have played out for me in terms of

being a cannabis patient advocate as well as an entrepreneur.

[01:13:12.600] - CJ

So Elijah, man, I really appreciate you reaching out to me, man. I would definitely love to do this again

as we continue to progress with this legislation. I know you're very familiar with what's going on in

Frankfurt as well as I. And I definitely think that we can collaborate on some things to try and get this

message even out to more people, to make everybody aware of what's going on here in Frankfurt in

between those legislative walls because a lot of people don't know or have no idea what's going on.

But I definitely appreciate you reaching out to me and extending me the offer to actually be on the

bluegrass podcast.

[01:13:52.800] - Elijah

Well, thank you so much for coming on CJ. I really appreciate it and I'm looking forward to get to meet

in person. I was hoping to today, but like we said, we didn't get the chance.

[01:14:02.400] - CJ

Yeah, for sure. Today would have been an epic day. We would have had the hearing, then we would

have sat down in person and did this podcast and that would have been ideal. And I was so much

looking forward to it. I was like, Tuesday is going to be awesome. I can't wait for Tuesday to get here.

And then I got that. News this morning, I was like, ain't that doubt? Are you serious? But I'm sure we'll

be able to link up and meet in person. I'm predicting that it'll be before March 30 before this session

ends because got my fingers, toes, my arms, my hairs, everything is crossed that these guys are going

to step up and align with the majority of Kentuckyans to legalize the cannabis plant.

[01:14:45.720] - Elijah

Absolutely. And before I let you go, was there anything that you wanted to get out to listeners or any

information you wanted to send out?

[01:14:53.280] - CJ

Okay, yes. We are actually in the process with my notice for medical marijuana. We have a national

program called Safe Access. I'm currently in the process of getting everything in order to have a safe

access seminar for people who are interested in getting into the legal medical marketplace because

right now, there are a lot of individuals who are being taken advantage of in terms of them not

knowing what's necessary to actually enter the cannabis space. So please be on the lookout for that

safe access program that we're going to be introducing and you can find more information on

Instagram at m four Mky. That's minorities for medical marijuana, kentucky on Instagram. Again,

that's m four Mky, the safe access program where we're going to offer safe access to the medical

marijuana market here in Kentucky.

[01:15:54.570] - Elijah

CJ, thank you so much for coming on.

[01:15:57.210] - CJ

I really appreciate you. Elijah really appreciate it.

[01:16:00.840] - Elijah

Thank you for listening. Our song this week was Grow by Graham Good and the painters.

If you're a band that would like to play your country or bluegrass song on the podcast, send it on over.

We're taking submissions now, and we'll be featuring one song per episode. If you haven't yet, make

sure to subscribe on YouTube, spotify, itunes, or wherever you listen to podcasts. If you'd like to stay

up to date with news, merch, and more, make sure to follow us on Instagram at @bluegrass_Cannabis

TikTok at bluegrass cannabis twitter at @bluegrasscanna. Thank you so much for listening, and stay

safe. The Bluegrass podcast. Old fashioned, all natural Kentucky bluegrass.